Totally, nowwhat?, verse by verse dissection feels much more like proper bible study, along with context.
Isambard Crater
JoinedPosts by Isambard Crater
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How are midweek CLAM meetings solid spiritual food in ANY way?
by Isambard Crater inbesides the possibility that the theocratic ministry school was dropped to avoid the word 'school' appearing any longer for a.r.c child abuse reasons, the introduction of the new clam meetings for midweek has been one of the several main factors making me develop a repulsion for the jw.org religion.. okay, the watchtower study is fairly mickey mouse these days too, but the midweek meetings are truly awful and contribute to me feeling physically and emotionally ill, which i documented in my first post on here.. i'm quite a well-educated person and my job involves a lot of linguistic skill, thinking, communication, analysis, research, interpretation and presentation.
the clam workbook is patronising and like something even school kids would tire of.. after a long day at work, i don't like the idea of dragging myself off to a midweek meeting in the cold dark nights let alone any other time of the year, but it'd be far better if it was for more solid spiritual food.
somehow the meetings i grew up with as a child were more interesting.
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NEW LIGHT Regarding the feet of Iron & Clay. Can someone confirm?
by pale.emperor inthis appeared on my facebook today.
can anyone confirm if this has official gb bullshit approval?.
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Isambard Crater
Does this help? The 2013 WT 7/15 3-8 says; "So, what can we expect will happen during the coming great tribulation? Jehovah will “cut short” the attack of the United Nations on false religion, not allowing true religion to be destroyed with the false. This will ensure that God’s people will be saved."
Also, the 2012 WT 6/15 14-18 says; "Soon Jehovah will cause the political elements of Satan’s system, as represented by the United Nations, to attack false religion."
But is the new understanding since 2012 that the US-UK world power will attack religion, not the UN, like what the Face book post says?
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NEW LIGHT Regarding the feet of Iron & Clay. Can someone confirm?
by pale.emperor inthis appeared on my facebook today.
can anyone confirm if this has official gb bullshit approval?.
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Isambard Crater
I really hope this latest possible nu lite isn't true. I can't keep up with all the doctrine changes and org rebranding.
Anyway, I read a headline that said Trump won't last another 6 months. Let's hope he quits/gets pushed, proving the Anglo-american nu lite wrong!
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How are midweek CLAM meetings solid spiritual food in ANY way?
by Isambard Crater inbesides the possibility that the theocratic ministry school was dropped to avoid the word 'school' appearing any longer for a.r.c child abuse reasons, the introduction of the new clam meetings for midweek has been one of the several main factors making me develop a repulsion for the jw.org religion.. okay, the watchtower study is fairly mickey mouse these days too, but the midweek meetings are truly awful and contribute to me feeling physically and emotionally ill, which i documented in my first post on here.. i'm quite a well-educated person and my job involves a lot of linguistic skill, thinking, communication, analysis, research, interpretation and presentation.
the clam workbook is patronising and like something even school kids would tire of.. after a long day at work, i don't like the idea of dragging myself off to a midweek meeting in the cold dark nights let alone any other time of the year, but it'd be far better if it was for more solid spiritual food.
somehow the meetings i grew up with as a child were more interesting.
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Isambard Crater
Besides the possibility that the Theocratic Ministry School was dropped to avoid the word 'school' appearing any longer for A.R.C child abuse reasons, the introduction of the new CLAM meetings for midweek has been one of the several main factors making me develop a repulsion for the JW.org religion.
Okay, the Watchtower study is fairly Mickey Mouse these days too, but the midweek meetings are truly awful and contribute to me feeling physically and emotionally ill, which I documented in my first post on here.
I'm quite a well-educated person and my job involves a lot of linguistic skill, thinking, communication, analysis, research, interpretation and presentation. The CLAM workbook is patronising and like something even school kids would tire of.
After a long day at work, I don't like the idea of dragging myself off to a midweek meeting in the cold dark nights let alone any other time of the year, but it'd be far better if it was for more solid spiritual food. Somehow the meetings I grew up with as a child were more interesting. These days, CLAM meetings are a carbon copy week on week. There's now no longer the opportunity to unearth genuinely interesting Bible highlights away from the dictated 'Jehovah' and 'ministry' questions, and the preprepared 'digging for spiritual gems' questions simply involve brothers or sisters repeating a Watchtower quote verbatim.
The bit that makes my heart sink and to feel physically nauseous is the trio of demonstrations. This month, we've endured the silhouette video of memorial invitations, then this week it's about how to offer, guess what, the memorial invitations. Next week, you'd never guess, it's about how to offer memorial invitations. Most publishers in my congregation have been offering them for the last week, so do we really need constant simpleton demonstrations?
The meeting then ends with 30 minutes of self-congratulatory stuff, which is rather contradictory and makes my mind wander onto Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson saying under oath in court in the Australian Royal Commission on child abuse that it would be presumptuous to call themselves the faithful and discrete slave, God's only channel.
The 3-minute review of the meeting is so repetitive but not in a good way, and the preview of next week is the same. Once you've studied the CLAM workbook in preparation, you don't learn anything new at all by attending the meeting itself.
'Association' afterwards comprises congregants saying how wonderful they feel to be in the centre for true worship, but during the meeting with 40 out of 80 publishers in attendance, only a handful participated and I saw loads of yawning. Someone in the ministry said to me lately he feels sorry for J.W's and wishes we'd let go and have fun. Inside my heart and head, I agreed with them.
Most of the time, when someone asks how I am and I tell them I'm not so good, they very ironically say "we'll it's a good job you've got The Truth" and "I'm sure being here tonight will make you feel better, then" - but most J.W's in my experience simply start walking away the minute someone says they're unwell or whatever. Nice.
I find the CLam meeting analysis on this site very good.
Instead of wasting my time at a CLAM meeting I'd rather be helping the homeless or doing real 'good'.
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Emotionally very ill but can't face consequences of leaving
by Isambard Crater ini'm a new member so wanted to say 'hi'.
i live in the u.k, was born in, fell away as an unbaptised publisher, got baptised in my 30s for reasons i'm retrospectively unsure of, and lost my faith about five years ago around the time of the original a.r.c.
now, being unable to leave is making me physically, emotionally and mentally ill.. i'm not strong enough to da and live with the family consequences, and despite having several good friends outside the faith, none of them could support me in an active way as such.
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Isambard Crater
xjwsrock - thanks for sharing your situation. I'm kind of amazed you're able to coast in the way you do if you're an elder, but good for you and I like your reasoning!
Pete Zahut - wow, your experience sounds similar to mine, as I've turned to drinking (sometimes) too and a few other anxiety and stress-relieving things I shouldn't really grow a fondness for. It's encouraring to know it didn't take years for your anxiety and distress to subside, but rather, a week or so. These days I miss an average of 3 of the 8 monthly meetings. I've often wanted to make eye-opening comments during the Watchtower but lack any confidence in public situations nowadays. I already have my own territory card, which has allowed me to do ministry when it suits me and not to have to mix with other J.W's, but people are getting a bit suspicious now and tell me I really need to be out with the group. I've used the depression and anxiety reason in a very genuine way, as I was even hospitalised with it in the recent past, but they say heed the org's advice and pray, study, preach and attend meetings more, which will make me less depressed, as I only feel that way because of Satan and being in a divided home.
Scully - My job is currently a nightmare anyway, with loads of projects going wrong and big deadlines over my head, so I've had to miss meetings because of work anyway - which is 'disappointing' to the congregation, who I guess perceive me as spiritually weak. I have been put on various strong medication over the years but decided to come off all of it because I don't want to damage my body and mind in addition to the damage done to it by the org and want to be fully in control of my own emotions even if they're killing me at the moment, rather than something managing my chemicals for me. Plus I want to be able to have a drink sometimes, which most of my previous meds prevented!
Zyron - you sound in the most similar situation. Your advice about reading on the tablet is good. I might try that. Do you find yourself thinking about the troubling things taught and heard at the meetings once you've gone home and then all throughout the next day? I find it very hard to walk out of the Kingdom Hall and forget about things. They really affect and dominate my mind and even my body.
My husband loves it when I miss meetings, which is understandable, but one thing I didn't mention is that our marriage is on the rocks for a few other strong reasons, which makes life even harder for me at the moment. It's hell, but I know this forum will support me more than the J.W's have tried to do so far.
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Emotionally very ill but can't face consequences of leaving
by Isambard Crater ini'm a new member so wanted to say 'hi'.
i live in the u.k, was born in, fell away as an unbaptised publisher, got baptised in my 30s for reasons i'm retrospectively unsure of, and lost my faith about five years ago around the time of the original a.r.c.
now, being unable to leave is making me physically, emotionally and mentally ill.. i'm not strong enough to da and live with the family consequences, and despite having several good friends outside the faith, none of them could support me in an active way as such.
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Isambard Crater
I'm a new Member so wanted to say 'hi'. I live in the U.K, was born in, fell away as an unbaptised publisher, got baptised in my 30s for reasons I'm retrospectively unsure of, and lost my faith about five years ago around the time of the original A.R.C. Now, being unable to leave is making me physically, emotionally and mentally ill.
I'm not strong enough to DA and live with the family consequences, and despite having several good friends outside the faith, none of them could support me in an active way as such. But I've got to the stage where I can't face going to the meetings anymore.
I have read loads of posts on this and other J.W forums from people who have to pretend they're still in although they're awake, so want advice on how you cope with meetings and occasional ministry without it driving you crazy like it's started to do to me?
Fading's not an option at the moment so I want to be able to cope with the two weekly meetings and maybe 2 hours of door knocking per week maximum, but be able to stop my doubts and disgust dominating every waking thought the rest of the time, so I can relax and forget about it between meetings.
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New member + anyone attended/seen the Zone Visit?
by Isambard Crater ini'm a new member so wanted to say 'hi'.
i live in the u.k, was born in, fell away as an unbaptised publisher, got baptised in my 30s for reasons i'm retrospectively unsure of, and lost my faith about five years ago around the time of the original a.r.c.
now, being unable to leave is making me physically, emotionally and mentally ill.. i have been visiting this forum for a couple of years and wanted to post my first message to see if anyone has attended, heard or watched the zone visit broadcast thing happening this month?
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Isambard Crater
Thanks, Nicholaus Kopernicus. I can't wait. Not.
Why the constant need among J.W's for modesty and about dress and grooming? In all the environments I frequent, from offices to supermarkets and restaurants, it's very, very rare to see people dressed immodestly. And why the need to have the annual convention animation telling young J.W's not to push older ones down the stairs? I mean, where does that happen and what sort of people need reminding?
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New member + anyone attended/seen the Zone Visit?
by Isambard Crater ini'm a new member so wanted to say 'hi'.
i live in the u.k, was born in, fell away as an unbaptised publisher, got baptised in my 30s for reasons i'm retrospectively unsure of, and lost my faith about five years ago around the time of the original a.r.c.
now, being unable to leave is making me physically, emotionally and mentally ill.. i have been visiting this forum for a couple of years and wanted to post my first message to see if anyone has attended, heard or watched the zone visit broadcast thing happening this month?
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Isambard Crater
Thank you, MissFit and freddo, for your encouraging thoughts and sharing your experiences.
For over 3 years I have not believed in 1914, the governing body/FADS, shunning, preaching, the stance on child abuse, the flood and so many other beliefs, but the one thing that sometimes pricks at my mind and heart is the statue from Daniel. It does sometimes sound very feasible that the feet of iron and clay do depict today's fragmented and unstable governments and political situations. I guess that "what if?" doubt nags at many people who fade and the heartache will eventually fade over imagining my parents and grandparents in paradise realising I didn't make it.
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New member + anyone attended/seen the Zone Visit?
by Isambard Crater ini'm a new member so wanted to say 'hi'.
i live in the u.k, was born in, fell away as an unbaptised publisher, got baptised in my 30s for reasons i'm retrospectively unsure of, and lost my faith about five years ago around the time of the original a.r.c.
now, being unable to leave is making me physically, emotionally and mentally ill.. i have been visiting this forum for a couple of years and wanted to post my first message to see if anyone has attended, heard or watched the zone visit broadcast thing happening this month?
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Isambard Crater
Witness My Fury, I guess I'm like a certain percentile of people who can't get "the Truth" out of their heads even when they left it many years ago, so the notion of "what if they're right and I won't see my parents in the new system if I leave the J.W's after they die?" is always at the back of my mind.
Vanderhoven7, I'm not so sure any more to be honest. The old testament god seems so different, the J.W religion seems to lack love in so many ways and be hypocritical, and I'm warming to my husband's views that religion and God were cooked up by governments as a way of controlling people when humans weren't able to get a grip. I've so many questions about the Bible like 607 BCE, Noah being a preacher, blah, blah, that I'm just confused and need time out without having the pressure to turn in report card each month.
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New member + anyone attended/seen the Zone Visit?
by Isambard Crater ini'm a new member so wanted to say 'hi'.
i live in the u.k, was born in, fell away as an unbaptised publisher, got baptised in my 30s for reasons i'm retrospectively unsure of, and lost my faith about five years ago around the time of the original a.r.c.
now, being unable to leave is making me physically, emotionally and mentally ill.. i have been visiting this forum for a couple of years and wanted to post my first message to see if anyone has attended, heard or watched the zone visit broadcast thing happening this month?
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Isambard Crater
Searril, I was thinking more along the lines of if I started helping him put up Christmas decorations (personally I love Christmas carols and coral music at that time of year, for example) and going to his nephews' birthday parties, someone is bound to find out soon enough, like an elder or someone in the congregation who spies me joining in something.